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Post by MarkTheDM on Jul 23, 2017 8:23:13 GMT -9
So. I'm just curious. Seems liek on these forums everyone suggest inkjet printers, and elmers glue.
I've got a brother MFC-9320CW and it prints gorgeous paper Minis on regular or card stock paper, and costs virtually nothing in toner to print them. Is there any other reason people don't use lasers that I'm not seeing?, because ATM i see no problems at all with using it.
Also, why don't people just use glue sticks?
I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm new to this hobby and i am legitimately curious as to why people seem to go about things in a more expensive and difficult way than it seems is necessary. Is there some advantage to Inkjet or Wet Glue
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Post by Vermin King on Jul 23, 2017 8:54:59 GMT -9
Laser works great for minis and has superior color vibrancy. Works good for minis that are flat. If you do figures like eddnic's or models, you will probably have a problem with flaking, unless you use a clear coat. I use Krylon Crystal Clear Satin for most projects. When people say they use Elmer's, they are usually talking Tacky Glue or Wood Glue, because they have lower water content. A low water content PVA glue gives a stronger bond, but for minis, glue sticks are fine. Probably ought to talk technique, too. If you are using a clear coat, it is better to use multiple light passes rather than one heavy coat. When you use glue sticks, you want to 'press' them after gluing. Put the minis flat on a table and pile some books on them. This helps them to get a better bond. You want to do that with PVA glue, too, when possible. On models, I use needle-nose pliers and tweezers as clamps on joints until things set. When you are using low water-content PVA, you want to apply it sparingly. And then there is also cyano-acrylate glue ... super glue. Also use sparingly. It really works well to harden narrow parts |
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Post by MarkTheDM on Jul 23, 2017 10:08:00 GMT -9
wow those 3D minis are cool xD, I doubt I really have the time to create them, but they are really cool. Thanks for the advice, I'm DMing a new campaign for DnD so I picked up a bunch fo the different flat minis, like kobolds and stuff, cause I have hardly any Minis and they are too expensive. So these paper Minis work great
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Post by oldschooldm on Jul 23, 2017 14:08:46 GMT -9
My experience with Glue Sticks is that the glue breaks down pretty quickly. I end up having to glue the items together again with another glue. I don't use any of the Elmers glues. I am one of many that use the Scotch clear glue (that come in two-sided applicators.)  |
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Post by MarkTheDM on Jul 23, 2017 16:24:19 GMT -9
What do you guys suggest to use as a clear coat, I have some crylon matte clear coat spray paint here but I think ti will just wet the paper too much. I want to give them kinda a plasticity finish to preserve them from grubby hands better. But really not interested in using packing tape or lamination.
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Post by okumarts on Jul 23, 2017 16:30:03 GMT -9
I almost always just use a glue stick unless I'm building something 3d.
I've had too many issues with flaking with a laser printer myself, but that was back around 2000-2001 so maybe the tech has improved over the past 16-17 years.
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Post by MarkTheDM on Jul 23, 2017 16:35:39 GMT -9
I almost always just use a glue stick unless I'm building something 3d. I've had too many issues with flaking with a laser printer myself, but that was back around 2000-2001 so maybe the tech has improved over the past 16-17 years. ya i ahvent had any flaking issues, but if you really crease something good you will, so I could see how they wouldn't be as great for 3D models. Lucky for me I guess since I just plan to use the 2D units for DnD Games. |
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Post by okumarts on Jul 23, 2017 16:38:54 GMT -9
Hey, a fellow Canadian I see. Any chance you are the game designer Mark from Fonthill?
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Post by MarkTheDM on Jul 23, 2017 16:44:15 GMT -9
Hey, a fellow Canadian I see. Any chance you are the game designer Mark from Fonthill? lol.... yes that's me. how do u knwo that, other than lookin at my facebook xD |
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Post by okumarts on Jul 23, 2017 16:45:46 GMT -9
I think I stumbled across you on Facebook about a month ago looking for 3d modelers/video game design types. You have a cool portfolio already!
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Post by MarkTheDM on Jul 23, 2017 16:48:45 GMT -9
haha, cool. and thanks!. Working on a few new projects and starting a company ATM xD.
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Post by okumarts on Jul 23, 2017 17:11:24 GMT -9
I have some relatives in Welland and have had a few meals at a restaurant with a duck in the name in Fonthill.. dangit, I can't recall... (goes to google) ... The Lazy Loon.. Jeez, not a duck to be found there.
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Post by Vermin King on Jul 23, 2017 18:08:25 GMT -9
What you were saying about wetting the paper is very true. That's why you need to do very light coats. Think 'multiple dustings'
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Post by alloydog on Jul 23, 2017 23:46:38 GMT -9
In the past, I found laser printed stuff to be too shiney for my taste and yes, they could also crack/flake. As like the others, I too found that gluesticks dry and seperate too quickly. I use white PVA glue.
As for protective coating, many years ago I had a tin of boat hull varnish. It brushed on very smoothly, didn't cause the ink to spread and didn't add much of a shine to the prints either. However, you really had to use it outdoors as, when wet, it smelled really bad.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Jul 25, 2017 9:22:06 GMT -9
Glues
I use Alene's Original Tacky Glue--available at Michaels or Amazon pretty inexpensively--which is a PVA (white) glue with a lower water-content than regular Elmers, which means it sets up a bit faster and is less prone to wrinkling or warping the minis as it dries. My method for gluing two-sided minis is to spread a thin coat of glue on the inside face of one side, then press the two sides together and smooth them by hand. Then I press them under a stack of books for an hour or two while they cure. When I pull them out from under the books, they are bonded well, but you can feel that they aren't dry yet. I've found that it's best not to dry them lying on one side--the two sheets of cardstock will dry at different rates, and the mini will curl toward the upper side, which dries faster. Instead, I dry them propped upright, usually against the books and other detritus on my desk or bookshelves, so that both sides are exposed to the air. This lets them dry quickly and evenly, and almost eliminates curling.
If I were serious about this hobby--and apparently having about 2,000 figures cut out hasn't made me serious yet--I'd rig up some sort of drying rack using window screen or a similar material. Then I could lay out a whole bunch of minis to dry at once in a relatively small space. Since I only produce a dozen or two figures per gluing session, though, and they dry in an hour or less, I can usually find enough natural leaning space around the office without having to resort to a dedicated rack.
I've tried rubber cement and spray mount for gluing minis as well, but I don't like them for that purpose. The advantage is that they bond instantly, and don't take curing/drying time, since they are both forms of contact cement. Also, rubber cement that gets where it shouldn't be can be easily removed with a pencil eraser; spray mount is harder to remove that way. On the downside, they both stink to high heaven, and spray mount has to be done outside, unless you want your whole office and everything in it to become slightly sticky from the overspray and mist. Both rubber cement and spray mount have their uses in papercraft (particularly adhering large printed pages to stiff a heavy-duty backing, such as foamcore or chipboard, without wrinkles or warping), but for paper minis, they are the wrong tool for the job.
Superglue won't give you enough working time to spread it evenly across one face of a mini, so it's not much good for gluing mini fronts and backs together. It is great for gluing tiny, fiddly bits in place, though, particularly if the bits are so small you need tweezers to hold them.
Ink-Jet vs. Laser Printers
Laser printing is great for color saturation and detail, but it does flake when its folded, so it's best saved for things you know are going to be flat, like 2D map tiles. For anything with visible folds--which includes just about any 3D paper model such as buildings, terrain, or props--you want to stick with an ink-jet, since the ink soaks into the paper slightly, and won't flake. (It is possible to bend ink-jet printed cardstock until it fatigues and exposes some of the white fiber below the ink-saturated layer, but it takes a lot more folding than it would with laser prints.) Most papercraft minis fall in between these two cases. You are only folding them along one line, which either gets trimmed off or jammed into a base, so flakes along that fold won't matter, but I do a lot of tight cutting close to the edge of the figure when I finish the figure, which seems to cause some flaking with laser-printed minis.
I've had both laser and inkjet printers over the years. Although lasers have a low cost per page, the absolute cost of replacement toner cartridges can be really painful--$50 or more per cartridge, and it takes four different colored cartridges to print. If you have an inkjet printer already, you can significantly cut the cost of ink by refilling your cartridges--I've had excellent results with the refilling service offered by Costco, at $10-$14 per cartridge. Avoid cut-rate, off-brand replacement cartridges, though--the quality and color of the ink is not at all consistent, even if you always buy the same after-market brand.
If you're looking to buy a printer for papercrafting, though, I'd look really hard at Epson's Eco-Tank line. I've been very happy with the print-quality I've gotten from my Eco-Tank printer, and the per-page cost of ink is literally less than two cents. When you pick out an Eco-Tank printer, though, read the features carefully, and be sure you get one that does what you need. The one I bought (the 4550) does an excellent job with two-sided printing, but it wasn't designed to handle cardstock (I've learned how to make it work reliably with the 110 lb. cardstock we all use, but it took some experimentation).
Coating
Of course, laser printing doesn't run if it gets wet the way that ink-jet ink will, so if your players play with wet, sticky fingers, laser printing will help your minis last longer. Or you can coat ink-jet printed minis to protect them against potato-chip grease and soda-can sweat. When I coat my figures, I use a Krylon Acrylic coat, usually satin or matte, or something similar. Be careful if you are spraying a model with exposed foam, like the edge of foamcore board, though, since most aerosol paints and enamels will melt foam--I recommend you test your clear coat on some foam you don't care about before you spray it on a model you spent hours assembling.
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Post by squirmydad on Jul 25, 2017 14:27:37 GMT -9
-I've used gluesticks on my paper minis for years with no ill effect, it's a pretty dry climate here though. I roll the side of my fist over them to make sure they are squished flat and then set them aside tofinish drying.
-I use Alene's Tacky glue for models, small amounts, pinch the tabs in place for twenty seconds, move on.
-I usually forget to spray coat my sheets before I start so I just give them two coats when I'm done, same as I do for my metal and plastic miniatures.
Laserprinters: I haven't used one in a long time, when I did there were issues with cracking that were very annoying. I use a Canon inkjet printer because it is very reliable.
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Post by bravesirkevin on Jul 25, 2017 21:46:05 GMT -9
Glue sticks work just fine... the problem is that the glue will eventually decay and no longer bond the pieces together and that happens relatively quickly with glue sticks. It's not uncommon for things glued with a stick to start falling apart within as little as 2 years, requiring you to glue them back together again. I find rubber cement actually has the most longevity and have some paper projects built with it that are still in good shape after almost a decade.
With regards to laser prints, it really is just a matter of them not dealing with friction too well. If the piece requires lots of fiddling during the building process, then it's inevitable that you're going to rub the toner off the paper, though avoiding coated papers and giving it a few coats of varnish before cutting and assembling to seal it all down will overcome that problem very nicely, provided that you're using a glue that will actually stick to the varnish. Of course, with flat paper minis there isn't going to be that much friction and you don't need to glue on the varnished side so for that kinda job a laser printer and glue stick will do just fine!
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Post by godofrandomness on Aug 6, 2017 20:23:20 GMT -9
Here's my 2 cents on the topic. In terms of glue, I usually use whatever glue stick I can find. Currently, I am using either the large purple elmer school glue stick, or a smaller craft bond grade glue stick from Elmer. In terms of how long the glue sticks last for me, I've got a whole box of minis here that I used glue sticks on about 6-9 years ago, and they are still holding together.
As for printer type, I have settled for whatever FedEx Office uses for their printing. Especially considering whatever online coupon I find at the time of ordering, it seems to cost only a hair extra to have them print the stuff instead of at home, and a FAR superior quality in my opinion.
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Post by sgtslag on Dec 9, 2019 6:06:57 GMT -9
I've been using a color laser printer for several years now. I printed a bunch of FDG castle walls and towers, without any flaking. I generally do not fold printed sections, though. I print on full sheet label paper, stick it to 3mm thick cardboard, then I cut my pieces along the printed texture edges, and glue them to a square balsa rod, to form the corners. The balsa rods also prevent warping of the cardboard. Here is a link to some photo's. photos.app.goo.gl/JqdBRrhfsUiyNJj27 Tower underbelly. photos.app.goo.gl/bppFX695uqkjZXtg6 In game play; siege tower is 3mm cardboard clad in printed label paper. photos.app.goo.gl/iFTXJMtPu4kcpqcx7 Gatehouse, with Hot Glue on the seams, to reinforce. I have also used the label paper successfully, without flaking, on round cardboard tubes, to make round towers. I have printed the merlons on regular paper, thus far, which is too flimsy. I've switched to using the 3mm cardboard, which I curl, first, then I apply the label paper. This seems to work rather well. I glue, and overlap, the cardboard merlons to the tower with the printed face of the top of the tower, for better strength. I'm using white PVA Glue, with decent success, thus far. It seems to soak through the printed toner, to bond to the underlying label paper. Cheers! slag-productions.blogspot.com/p/crafting-projects.htmlBlog on my techniques for making round towers. 3.bp.blogspot.com/-5atNBM3urTI/Ux-taaEtfJI/AAAAAAAAApk/BVFFzikcKDc/s1600/IMG_2390.JPGFinished Tower, and a blank cardboard tube identical to that used in the Tower. |
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Spent two 'fun' hours last night unclogging a heat break tube (the nozzle was a lost cause and replaced). Stupid bowden tube slipped and molten plastic spilled up into the heat break tube and congealed.