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Post by gloriousbattle on Sept 21, 2018 18:58:53 GMT -9
BTW, and before I forget, somebody did a set of Old West / Weird West, I believe based off Patrick's Steampunk figures. As per usual per me, I found these once and can't find them again. Any help? Anyway. I can imagine a few reasons why fantasy/sf would be so plentiful, and historicals so few, but they are pure speculation. We'll see what I get right/wrong: 1. EASIER TO CREATE: Historicals have to be historically accurate, and so some research has to go in. Fantasy and SF can be whatever you like. 2. BAD PRECEDENT IN PAPER?: Here I am really speculating, but, while I love almost everything Patrick Crusiau ever drew, I did not like his 15mm Napoleonics, and I always hoped he would do some in 25/28. Since so much of his stuff gets modified into other things, I can see a certain reluctance there? 3. THE POPULAR PERIODS HAVE PRETTY MUCH BEEN DONE? Here is one I really hope is not the case. After all, there are something like a billion DBX armies for all sorts of weird and obscure periods (Shang Chinese, anyone? Or Black/White Sheep Turks?) that are just screaming for a representation in paper. In fact, I can almost imagine the publishers of said systems giving some free advertising space to an aspiring artist who was willing to work his fingers to the bone on such a project. Of course, the same could be said for a lot of Hordes of the Things obscure fantasy armies, I suppose. Just curious, and would really love to see some 25/28mm Napoleonics. The image below is, of course, Patrick Crusiau's 25/28mm Thirty Years War set, which, to this day, remains among my very favorite miniatures  |
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Post by aaron on Sept 21, 2018 19:46:57 GMT -9
I can't vouch for anyone else but the reason I don't do historical stuff is complicated.
first fantasy is fantasy it doesn't really happen nor has it ever happened.
Historical is real. it really happened. My grandfather died in WWII I never knew him. I grew up in the military and attended more folded flag ceremonies than I ever wanted to. for me in historical war games ever soldier you take off the table is a letter home to a family that will never see their loved on again..... soooo I don't do historical. it's just awkward for me.
second I think it's kinda boring, I mean you can go out and get a bag of army men for crying out loud they make old west and even plastic bag of knights in armor why bother?
finally the endless stream of complaints and add on's no one is ever really happy with them this doesn't look right that's not the correct shade of grey or what have you besides most people want townies anyway.
I love fantasy stuff because like you said it can be what I say it is LOL
so that's why I don't do historical oh ya also 15mm sucks you might's well be using black smudges for all the detail it will allow you LOL
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 22, 2018 4:36:26 GMT -9
Fantasy doesn't have to be historically accurate, so game designers, figure designers and scenery designers can let their imaginations soar without having to worry about rivet counters, historical ramifications, and differences of opinion on how specific engagements happened.
And then there are the bad memories that people avoid. In some places in Europe you can't even have a swastika on a model.
I wish there was more historical material available, but I can understand why there isn't more.
I've always thought the Opium Wars period in Asia would have a lot of inspiration for a game, but very little is available to support a game like that
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Post by wyvern on Sept 22, 2018 5:06:48 GMT -9
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Post by gloriousbattle on Sept 22, 2018 6:45:20 GMT -9
Depressing. Kinda like asking why paper minis at all, when you can get cheap D&D minis on the after-market Those, both, I can agree with. Historical wargamers can be an ungrateful and curmudgeonly bunch. :-( Also somewhat depressing. Have we really gotten to the point that we want to ignore history because people got hurt. Santa Anna and "doomed to repeat it", and all that. Also, I'll be a bit old fashionedly jingoistic and say that there is a certain glory to our past, the good and the evil both, but, as you say, that's just me. |
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Post by gloriousbattle on Sept 22, 2018 6:51:57 GMT -9
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Post by Rhannon on Sept 22, 2018 8:51:01 GMT -9
There can be many reasons why historical paper minis are not produced. I don't know. Few requests and above all, imho, it is more difficult to draw historical figures. but this is only my personal opinion. As I think CWF is the best reference point for fantasy, sci.fi ... paper minis, not historical anyway I think that today the best reference for historical figures is the Russian Kavalergard forum. Truly difficult to register ( I had used google translator ) but then there are hundreds of free sheets to download. And some VK pages.
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Post by mesper on Sept 22, 2018 14:33:22 GMT -9
Well, please just check out PERMES historical sets available on OBS sites (RPGnow, DriveThroughRPG, WargameVault) You will find there dozens PERMES sets from different periods of history, including ancient era (Ancient Egypt, Roma Aeterna, Greece and Alexander The Great, Persian Empire), dark/medieval ages, XVI-XVIII century, medieval Japan and more! PERMES Historical Series at RPGnow
BTW a lot of information about PERMES products and even some free samples can be also found right here in this forum!  |
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Post by Rhannon on Sept 22, 2018 22:12:53 GMT -9
Well, please just check out PERMES historical sets available on OBS sites (RPGnow, DriveThroughRPG, WargameVault) You will find there dozens PERMES sets from different periods of history, including ancient era (Ancient Egypt, Roma Aeterna, Greece and Alexander The Great, Persian Empire), dark/medieval ages, XVI-XVIII century, medieval Japan and more! PERMES Historical Series at RPGnow
BTW a lot of information about PERMES products and even some free samples can be also found right here in this forum! Sorry Permes! :-( I had forgotten all your beautiful historical sets. Romans, Egyptians, TYW ... tons of gorgeous figures. :-) |
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Post by wyvern on Sept 23, 2018 5:44:59 GMT -9
Another option, but needing a lot more work, is the Paper Soldiers books from publishers Helion & Company. They've so far produced ONLY historical paper minis and structures, with various terrain features, in a series of books that also include some pleasing, if fairly simple, wargame rules. The artwork is of very high quality, but unfortunately, the books are ONLY available in hard-copy format. This means you've got to either colour-copy the pages, or scan them, then set-up the scans to print-off your own, which adds a LOT of extra time and effort. It's a particular problem because the books have A4-sized pages, so for US letter-sized scanners and papers, this will need still more effort. Add to that that some of the earlier books, a couple of those in the "Battle for Britain" series, had artwork too close to the page edges to scan even using an A4 scanner, and you start to wonder how much the publisher really cares about this series. I spoke to one of their sales reps at a wargames show earlier this month, and asked why they don't provide the artwork in PDF format as well, and he was very apologetic - especially as I'd written to the publishers soon after the series was launched on this topic, but never had a reply - and said basically it was because the owner of the company didn't understand enough about electronic technologies! The insanity is that they give you permission in the books to make copies of the artwork for private use, because this is their entire intention of publishing this way! Enough of the rant The links: * Portal page for the series. * Free sample PDF downloads page (can you sense the irony...?) For Napoleonics, the only tome available now is The Battle of Trafalgar 1805, but The Peninsula War is currently scheduled for publication on 15th April 2019. |
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Post by gloriousbattle on Sept 24, 2018 8:54:53 GMT -9
There can be many reasons why historical paper minis are not produced. I don't know. Few requests and above all, imho, it is more difficult to draw historical figures. but this is only my personal opinion. As I think CWF is the best reference point for fantasy, sci.fi ... paper minis, not historical anyway I think that today the best reference for historical figures is the Russian Kavalergard forum. Truly difficult to register ( I had used google translator ) but then there are hundreds of free sheets to download. And some VK pages.
UGH. Russian? I see much frustration ahead, but, with many pages of figures... I'll give it a try! |
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Post by aaron on Sept 24, 2018 10:09:59 GMT -9
Also somewhat depressing. Have we really gotten to the point that we want to ignore history because people got hurt. Santa Anna and "doomed to repeat it", and all that. Also, I'll be a bit old fashionedly jingoistic and say that there is a certain glory to our past, the good and the evil both, but, as you say, that's just me. [/quote] there is a difference between ignoring and respecting. how do I ignore all of me dead friends and relives? and in this case those "people" you are referring to are people who have names, families and friends that were left behind and some of us are still hurting. but hey let's make a game out of it. let's re live all the horrible gory moments in full cinematic view for our entertainment... I mean History ya that's it, History. The forensic evidence suggested that because of enemy gun fire the right engine failed, as the rear part of the fuselage broke away, tail Gunner Jake Simmons, Jakey boy to his friends and Crew. he liked scotch, and collected records, he went with it. the B-17 then went into a nose dive spinning at nearly 3 g-s the right wing severed through the fuselage at this point a flash fire happened and the plane exploded. My Grandfather, Harold Lockwood Hopkins, or Hoppy as everyone called him including my grandmother, was flying that plane and sitting next to him was his life long drinking buddy and co pilot Stan Riffenberg. This event destroyed my Grandmother, and by extension my dad. I heard the story several times about how my dad and his bothers were playing in the yard when a white government vehicle pulled onto their street. they knew what it was, and watched as it creeped down the road looking for the right address. Everyone would come to the windows and watch that car creep past their house and breath a sigh of relief and even my grandmother had come out and told the boys to go back in the house, she said that she just knew that it wasn't going to pass them this time. She was right. My dad sat on the stairs with his older Brother Wayne and his younger Brother Steve while Donny was playing upstairs completely unaware. he listened at the door as the officer delivered the news and watched his mother collapse in a sobbing mess as she was told the events of what happened. things would never be the same after that. Each of them had to deal with it in their own way. and then there was me, I wasn't there that day, I didn't see the car, I didn't fight in that war, but yet I still had to carry the burden of the fall out. I grew up with a folded flag and a box full of medals where my grandfather should have been, they are hard not very supporting and don't tell good stories.  here's a picture of Hop next to Stan Riffenburg, So forgive me for being a bit emo about this but that comment just kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I don't want to make a game out of this. I think it deserves more respect than that. |
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Post by chiefasaur on Sept 24, 2018 10:35:48 GMT -9
Seriously dude, did you respond to somebodies very personal, very valid reason for being uncomfortable making historical minis with a bloviated "Get over it."
You're like expert-level awful.
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 24, 2018 11:13:39 GMT -9
I evidently missed something. Sorry about that
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Post by Antohammer on Oct 5, 2018 23:46:40 GMT -9
..... ....Just curious, and would really love to see some 25/28mm Napoleonics. (hope it works ...i dont know how to tag) i understand you, personally i like historical games and campaign!!! but i can understand those that play only fantasy... there are fantasy female elves with big bobb :3 :3 :3  aniway i m trying to make napoleonic minia if you have any request just ask me theese are the first www.patreon.com/posts/21817199 |
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