|
|
Post by okumarts on Jul 8, 2014 22:00:42 GMT -9
The skull at the top is the Threat Level / Experience Reward for the character.
The back will say Character Card as part of the fun I've found is having players randomly draw characters.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rhannon on Jul 8, 2014 22:08:39 GMT -9
The skull at the top is the Threat Level / Experience Reward for the character. The back will say Character Card as part of the fun I've found is having players randomly draw characters. Great idea!  ... And two different cards? is it not possible? |
|
|
|
Post by okumarts on Jul 8, 2014 22:13:50 GMT -9
Oh, it's totally possible, I was just thinking of the ink use and I was trying to be as inclusive as possible with male and female versions of each class represented on the card and as minis.
|
|
|
|
Post by WackyAnne on Jul 8, 2014 22:44:41 GMT -9
Oh, it's totally possible, I was just thinking of the ink use and I was trying to be as inclusive as possible with male and female versions of each class represented on the card and as minis. THIS! I actually hate the idea of two sides or two cards to split the genders. |
|
|
|
Post by Parduz on Jul 8, 2014 23:08:10 GMT -9
Me to i'd like an unique card for both the genders.... .... but layers are our friends  |
|
|
|
Post by enpeze on Jul 8, 2014 23:11:45 GMT -9
Yes, I also like the second one. How about some different colors for the icons? Just an idea about the gauntlet: the upper part of it with the fingers just uses valuable space of the card. maybe you could make this finger part smaller or replace it with a more economical icon?
|
|
|
|
Post by Parduz on Jul 8, 2014 23:35:41 GMT -9
About the card: may i say that the whole card art seems "less sharp" than the heroes illustration? I see that's it just a matter of the black lines on the figures and colored contours on the card.... still i have that feeling of a "paste-up". This little thing is the only "problem" ... glitch... (i don't know better words) i have about the beautiful card.... i'm just splitting hairs |
|
|
|
Post by wyvern on Jul 9, 2014 2:52:53 GMT -9
First-off, many thanks okumarts for your detailed replies to my questions. Great to see how things are developing (if slightly crazy to have begun with the campaign rules from your previous life in 10th century Ireland, and then developed the basic set later; but such is reality, of course!). Maybe worth expanding the information about the scenario packs a little, to help highlight the difference. Also, I think more could be made of these altogether than just being a little "buried away" among the Add-Ons. Going back to the days of HeroQuest, any and all extra materials are typically welcomed by gamers; you've only to see the following HQ retains online, despite the game being out of production for many years. Look forward to seeing the sample props; 2.5 and 3D sounds good; I thought fold-flat was going to be pushing it when I mentioned it, but if you don't ask, you never find out  The expanded monster mini numbers seem a lot more viable, and yes, they need pushing further into the limelight. Monster types, and the option for variety between them - as in your existing mini sets - can be a real selling point for a lot of folks. Will you be adding stats/stat cards for the just-unlocked Lord Zsezse Elven Tower KS OkumArts minis to your KS now too (or maybe even with the Lord Zsezse minis set)? Look forward to the $75 pledge option and the appearance of a PayPal option! With the sample character card layouts, I've no strong preference for either so far, but the second looks less cluttered. Not sure about the "blue bonnet" ( Nemo's "skull") in the top right corner, as it's not shouting out what it represents right now. The "to hit bonus" hammer maybe needs tweaking a little too, to lengthen the handle and make it look more "war-hammer-like", which might need the symbol tilting over a little. On first glance, I wasn't sure what it was (hypodermic through a rock?). An item on archaeologically-recovered Thor's Hammer amulets came up a few days ago, which perhaps shows a little better what I mean. And we now know they were definitely meant as hammers, thanks to the newly-found inscribed one (assuming the inscriber wasn't lying...)  Rhannon made some interesting points about KickStarters generally. I'm no great KS fan or backer, but the Lord Zsezse Elven Towers one - the first I've backed - seems to have done a lot of things just right to me, with clear information and illustrations highlighting the various pledge levels and stretch goals, aside from the initial KS product ideas being good and believable. And they've also taken note of comments, making changes and additions along the way, as well as keeping up a supply of replies and updates, both on the KS page and Forums like the CWF and elsewhere (probably the single most difficult and time-consuming aspect, I suspect). Maybe a mistake not to have given a little more information on the later stretch goals sooner (carrot for potential backers), and the inconsistent stretch levels, jumping from 12K to 14K, then 14.5K, having risen otherwise in 1K increments, have looked really odd, perhaps hinting that anything over 12K may not be viable (though it's at least as likely simply trying to avoid using the number "one-three" ). One thing that really caught my attention with the Lord Zsezse KS was how many other paper model manufacturers have wanted to be involved with it. It's really seemed almost like a CWF KS! Obviously, that wouldn't be always either viable or desirable in other cases, but it's been lovely to see. |
|
|
|
Post by bewulf on Jul 9, 2014 5:00:51 GMT -9
What follows are a few random mumblings. They are all my personal opinion, so feel free to agree or disagree as you wish. Be careful when adding pledge levels as Kickstarter sorts these only by value and pledge levels can not be removed or have their descriptions changed once they have any backers. So should you add a $75 level the backers at $100 and $200 levels would get the content of that level (not that I would mind ) unless you specifically mention in the $75 level that it is not included in the higher levels. Regarding the hero cards I would prefer the second variant as it seems more cleaned up, but I have to say that I did not recognize the "skull" as such, so maybe that could use some work. The damage bonus might be hard to read with it being black on a red background, at least on the thumbnail it is the only number I can not make out. I also want to second the layers suggestion. Have a female and a male layer for the cards with both layers checked resulting in the dual cards as they are shown in the examples. That way everyone gets what they want. Characters vs. Monsters vs. Scenarios is an old debate for dungeon crawlers. While Monsters and Scenarios do offer more replayability Characters are the bigger attraction. Try to find a balance that works for you. So far I think you are doing it right but you are a bit too modest. It is great when you can overdeliver on what was promised, but having 26 monster figures when mentioning only 12 monsters is pushing it. If you want to avoid causing false hopes with the numbers be definitive about what they mean. Example: 24 Monster figures (12 different profiles). Keep in mind that eyecandy draws backers like nothing else. Use your amazing art! So far the pictures on the campaign page focus on the 2D/3D tiles, which are a bit ... grey. Post some pictures of the figures. If you don't have much to show of the Darkfast Dungeons figures so far do not be shy to post examples of your previous work, so backers know what to expect. As has been shown by other comments the add-ons can be easily overlooked. Consider doing updates spotlighting a specific add-on, detailing what is included and showing a few teasers. So, that's all from me for now, hope it helps. Btw, I took the liberty to submit a Darkfast Dungeons dungeons entry on BoardGameGeek which got approved today: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/162074/darkfast-dungeonsDavid, please check if I have made any mistakes and maybe consider uploading a few pictures. |
|
|
|
Post by okumarts on Jul 9, 2014 5:33:56 GMT -9
Thanks bewulf!
I tried to upload the Kickstarter image on BGG, but I never know if anything I do on there works or not.
Sheesh! If I had more time today I'd spend more time with it, but there is too much to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by okumarts on Jul 9, 2014 6:13:56 GMT -9
Each character card will have both the male and female version of the class in the official expansions. I'm not going to make them layer-heavy as I need to keep the file size fairly low. There will be a B&W option though for printer ink savings.  |
|
|
|
Post by sirhelnor on Jul 9, 2014 6:23:31 GMT -9
wow, the black outlines make a world of difference in legibility... the blue around the parchment and title is causing them to fuse with the background, and then the drop shadow is causing some sort of dissonance. sorry, I'm trying to describe exactly what's going on, but really I just find it a little hard on the eyes. Do you think it might read a little better with everything having a black outline? It would actually help to tie the cards in with the miniatures as well, as your style tends to emphasize different elements by defining edges with the linework.
|
|
|
|
Post by okumarts on Jul 9, 2014 6:30:40 GMT -9
Yep.. I hardened up the drop shadow on the scrolls and gave them a black outline. seems to hold together a bit, but I think I will keep the blue outline ones around as a back up as putting text in the scrolls will pin them down a bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by okumarts on Jul 9, 2014 6:46:14 GMT -9
Monster Wishlist Time:
As I finalize the monsters/opponent cards I need to know what you think are the MUST HAVES for a basic Dungeon game. Maybe a top 5 denizens and a boss monster from each of you will help narrow it down (spoiler, I already have a list, I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.).
Aaaand go...
|
|
|
|
Post by Nemo on Jul 9, 2014 6:56:31 GMT -9
Goblins Orcs Skeletons Troll (just one, it's huge) Something evil and armored If the first two are in various shapes and kinds, you're going to make a man happy |
|
|
|
Post by oldschooldm on Jul 9, 2014 7:21:14 GMT -9
Kobolds (range attack)
Minotaurs
Skeletons
Stirges
Ettin
|
|
|
|
Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Jul 9, 2014 7:45:29 GMT -9
Here are a random five:
skeletons
kobolds
creepy crawlies (beetles, spiders, carrion crawlers)
zombies
slimes
As for a boss, I can't help but think of the bullrog from Munchkin.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zephalo on Jul 9, 2014 7:57:42 GMT -9
Top five:
Ratmen
Undead (Zombies, Skellies, Mummie...)
Orcs and Gobbos
Evil Warriors faction (incl. Sorcerer)
Large monsters
Greetings,
Zephalo
|
|
|
|
Post by gilius on Jul 9, 2014 8:16:24 GMT -9
Goblinoids
Skeletons
Giant critters (rats or spiders etc.)
Some odd creatures (slimes or rust monster or something)
Outlaws or cultists
Boss monster: dragon or maybe a wizard/necromancer and summoned elemental/abomination
|
|
|
|
Post by Parduz on Jul 9, 2014 8:38:38 GMT -9
Because of your style, i'd like to see some of the most comical, absurd, dumb mosters. So things like the Jelly Cube and other "liquid" monsters,carnivours fungis (or even watermelons ), giant bats, gollum-like creatures, dire snails, etc. But also brigands from the PC races... so an evil priest, bandits, evil knights, etc. could be nice. Also, 'cause your orcs are of the "pig" type, some "great orcs" more similar to huruk-hai or even to that famous green-skin beast with fangs that likes Red a lot Golems, elementals and demons could fill a niche |
|
|
|
Post by bewulf on Jul 9, 2014 9:10:02 GMT -9
Dungeon denizens - Giant Rats
- Skeletons
- Guards
- Slimes/Oozes
- Orcs
Boss monster |
|
|
|
Post by staroc on Jul 9, 2014 10:38:39 GMT -9
Maybe more expansion monsters than base sets, but I am all for the swamp monster types:
- Lizardmen
- Bullywugs (or Boggards)
- Skeletons
- Elementals
- Kobolds
|
|
|
|
Post by wyvern on Jul 10, 2014 3:10:47 GMT -9
The skull still needs a little work to identify it on the character cards, I think - eye-holes, perhaps? Monster lists. When designing introductory/basic level dungeons, I tend to go with monster types, so: - Relatively weak, mass infantry, plus their civilians (assuming this is "home"), and maybe with pet guard animals;
- Independent slow-moving solitary monsters, or those that can spring rapidly from cover when food passes-by;
- Fairly small quite fast flyers (nuisance level, so groups of no more than two to four, possibly recurring);
- A few medium threat-level monsters, possibly leaders and guards from the "infantry", possibly independent of them;
- King-equivalent for the "infantry", and a couple of similar threat-level companions - "king/queen" plus "mage/cleric", say.
- Boss type could be either the "king-equivalent", his "mage-equivalent" (power behind the throne), or an independent minor demon-equivalent. For a different twist though, the "boss" could be a sentient artefact instead (which can be made to work nicely with seemingly random monster groupings).
As I prefer my dungeons to have an internal logic (albeit warped at times), the actual monsters would be heavily dependent on the setting. And with a mix of living and undead, I'd rather the undead had been members of the living inhabitants originally, unless there was a good reason for them not to be (such as former adventurers, perhaps). |
|
|
|
Post by emergencyoverride on Jul 10, 2014 9:15:55 GMT -9
Dude! You gotta hook us up with the Darkfast dungeon Kickstarter avatars!
|
|
|
|
Post by okumarts on Jul 10, 2014 18:23:27 GMT -9
For those of you (like myself) who are supporting the Lord Zsezse Works KS, keep those up until the end of their campaign. Final hours and the big push to the end. How exciting. Once that is done I submit for your approval...  |
|
|
|
Post by Brave Adventures on Jul 11, 2014 1:24:49 GMT -9
I just signed up for the $100 custom set Are you going to include blank card templates? How about a PDF template with editable regions for the stats and details, and the ability to insert a custom png image? Then people could add their own monsters etc. but keep the same feel as the rest of the game. Maybe that could be a stretch goal? How about a tier level or add-on bundle that includes all the add-ons at a discount? Ryan |
|
|
|
Post by WackyAnne on Jul 11, 2014 4:23:10 GMT -9
Yes, I'd suggested having the existing minis sets as one &/or more bundles as addons, so that newcomers and/or completionists could fill up. It's best not to include them in a tier, especially by Kickstarter rules, since the campaign is to be used to Kickstart new product, not sell old. I'd originally thought custom artwork would be a good addon, but I think okumarts is right in keeping it top tier where he can set reasonable limits on the extra work, and keep the focus on the game. As for the existing addons? They actually read more like stretch goals to me, and I suspect may be hurting your campaign somewhat. I thought about whether to share this privately, since it will come off as critical, but I think it important for others to share their own perspectives. Altogether, with the full game, expansions, and addons (without any custom items), you are asking people to back you for as much money as your current catalogue, or near enough. To me, that comes across as expensive, particularly (and I know you will hate to hear this) as a print-and-play game. As a dungeon delve/adventure game, you are competing with Dungeon!, Descent, Talisman, WotC's Ravenloft/Ashardalon/Drizzt, all but the first having 20-40+ minis included, and no further work necessary on the part of the customer (mini painting optional). As a perhaps even more relevant example, you are competing with the likes of Zombicide, which is on its third wildly successful Kickstarter campaign. With Zombicide, for $90 MSRP ($60 on amazon) you get 70+ plastic minis, Z2 for $100 MSRP you get 90+ plastic minis, and that doesn't include the exclusive stretch goals or other bonuses for the campaign backers. Yes, Amazon & Chapters discount MSRP by about a third, but realistically, so should Kickstarter campaigns. I'm not saying you can expect or should aim for the insane levels of popularity of Zombicide, but their campaigns show the value of stretch goals. Kickstarter needs to be looked at a way to judge demand, yes, but also to create it, especially in the case of new products. It is an excellent marketing and community management tool when properly handled. While breaking even should be a necessity, profit should be a minor concern. You want to fund your creation costs, manufacturing costs, and distribution costs, as well as marketing/promotion. This is a new platform for you, a chance to get many new customers hooked on your fantastic art and creative figures, your quick and creative rules (which we await), your innovative terrain. But to really reach new customers and more I fear that the combination of high cost for your complete package, coupled with the further necessary -- and not inconsiderable -- investment of time and material, limits your potential audience. I really think you could expand your audience (quadrupling it or more), if you brought down the cost of the overall game from ~$100 down to $50, funding the current addons as stretch goals instead. I've backed about 50 Kickstarters altogether, probably 10-15 @ $1 just to follow along, a handful that didn't fund successfully, a handful of pledges I cancelled because either they or I changed their intent/goal/plan during their campaign, a couple of pledges I wished I'd cancelled because of changes they've made _after_ it's been funded (I will never back a computer game again!). Over the course of the year or so I've been on Kickstarter, I've grown wiser, more interested, more cautious, more invested. I've backed four producers a second time around, and have been actively involved in a few campaigns, most notably Fat Dragon's last. I've got a good idea of what works, and why, now. My advice might be coloured now by reduced hobby money, combined with an abundance of recent/current/near-future campaigns I'd like to support, so it's best to have other friends, fans, and backers weigh in with their experiences and opinions. You've got obvious talent, a terrific existing product line, and legions of fans - lets all work together to maximize the potential of this project so that Okumarts takes home an Ennie or two next year PS this was entirely typed on my iPhone , so I apologize for any errors in spelling, punctuation, &/or judgment, as it is too difficult to edite/re-edit it all, especially since I grew out my fingernails for the first time |
|
|
|
Post by Zephalo on Jul 11, 2014 9:43:01 GMT -9
As for the existing addons? They actually read more like stretch goals to me, and I suspect may be hurting your campaign somewhat. ... I really think you could expand your audience (quadrupling it or more), if you brought down the cost of the overall game from ~$100 down to $50, funding the current addons as stretch goals instead. ... Altogether, with the full game, expansions, and addons (without any custom items), you are asking people to back you for as much money as your current catalogue, or near enough. To me, that comes across as expensive, particularly (and I know you will hate to hear this) as a print-and-play game. As a dungeon delve/adventure game, you are competing with Dungeon!, Descent, Talisman, WotC's Ravenloft/Ashardalon/Drizzt, all but the first having 20-40+ minis included, and no further work necessary on the part of the customer (mini painting optional). As a perhaps even more relevant example, you are competing with the likes of Zombicide, which is on its third wildly successful Kickstarter campaign. With Zombicide, for $90 MSRP ($60 on amazon) you get 70+ plastic minis, Z2 for $100 MSRP you get 90+ plastic minis, and that doesn't include the exclusive stretch goals or other bonuses for the campaign backers. Yes, Amazon & Chapters discount MSRP by about a third, but realistically, so should Kickstarter campaigns. ... My advice might be coloured now by reduced hobby money, combined with an abundance of recent/current/near-future campaigns I'd like to support, so it's best to have other friends, fans, and backers weigh in with their experiences and opinions. You've got obvious talent, a terrific existing product line, and legions of fans - lets all work together to maximize the potential of this project so that Okumarts takes home an Ennie or two next year What she said (I'm not a native speaker, so it's much easier this way... ) Greetings, Zephalo |
|
|
|
Post by okumarts on Jul 11, 2014 10:18:49 GMT -9
It all makes perfect sense and hindsight IS 20:20, but I am still thrilled at the results so far. It kicks me into overdrive and ups my game much more than a quiet release on RPG Now.
I still think the basic game and the stretch goals are a steal for $10. All the added material is discounted making the KS a bar goon (darn spellcheck). A bar goon I tell you!
Anyway.. I greatly appreciate everyone's input and support. This is my first Kickstarter and I am learning.
I am very pleased to say that the skirmish free preview is soon to be released and then I will make images of all the figures and tiles and walls that are from each level of support. The Props will be my next project this weekend with lots of previews to come including the dragons in the Stretch Goals and the Caverns.
|
|
|
|
Post by emergencyoverride on Jul 11, 2014 10:44:44 GMT -9
RIGHT ON! I cant wait to get the skirmish set to try out and get thoroughly squashed by my wife. (Happens with most games) |
|
