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Post by paladin on Mar 2, 2012 10:36:29 GMT -9
;D hehe ... . I don't know the numbers (Hasbro knows), but I've heard rumors on the net, that WotC have still huge stocks of unsold 4th Ed. material in their store - and their release cancelling schedule of 2011/12 was breath-taking - together with the cancelling of D&D Minis Line. I would say, WotC is a cruising, leaking oil tank at best. Wealthy, but living on substance right now. If 5th Ed. is rejected by the community, then the oil will poor [sic!] pour out like the Niagara. It's very costly to develop and print a new RPG on this level. D&D brand will not be killed by that, but WotC will. D&D brand will be sold by Hasbro - like Star Wars. Of course, @adam, you will buy 5th Ed. You are a COLLECTOR ;D . I think, I will buy it too, if the praise is high enough - and the price low ... ;D.
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Post by paladin on Mar 2, 2012 8:48:12 GMT -9
Hmm ... your posts make me think, @adam and @cowboy. What a desaster, really. 1rst Ed. fanatics may be the grey-haired ones with OSRIC PDFs on their Smartphones. Happy TSR-archeologists with a scientific urge for complete pre-1990 spell-lists. And the market splitting, yes, I fear, that will happen again, unless WotC will try to convince everybody to CHANGE from old to NEXT - regardless of the 'old' edition played ... . And they will try exactly this: they will say, that 5th Edition is the ultimate and unbeatable TOTALITARISM of D&D, D&D-GURPS so to speak. And WotC has exactly this ONE try to convince. After that we will see D&D flourish or being sold to some shady Media License Pool noone knows ... .
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Post by paladin on Mar 2, 2012 8:19:21 GMT -9
Yip, good solution, @nik. Structure and (labeled) archives are important. Would rise the long-term value of this forum ... . Never throw information without a reason into the trash-container. You could need it in desperate and unknown times ... . @vermin King, I prefer your 3 months time limit to your, @cowboy, (very timely) 30 days time limit ... . Would help the late-comers (=me) . May I ask to accept the 3 month range as a new lax leeway for contributions to the Hoard? I think, noone is 'controlling' the 1-month-deadline anyhow right now. In addition there should be always a chance to fill the gaps and really neglected/mistreated months like January 2012 (neglecting the 'Fantasy Hoard'? How could that happen? Shame on us ... ;D).
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Post by paladin on Mar 1, 2012 15:30:39 GMT -9
... the end result is this succession of random editions. ... That's very different from madly changing things every few years just to be able to say "here's a new book with new rules you'll have to buy." To me that's worse than programmed obsolescence because it's even more arbitrary. No, no and no, gilius. Nothing what WotC has done or does is random, mad or arbitrary. You will only find time and business tested and remarkable design people over there. I would not say, the best, but belonging to the best, for sure. A 'few years' is a long time intervall - regardless of which business model or market share we are talking right now. How do you wanna survive as a 2 persons-company with only 2 products in 2 years e.g.? Depends on the 2 products and their prices of course. But they have to sell really well in numbers, if those 2 persons want to survive ... . Now remember the staff of WotC (hiring and firing by the dozens anyway ...). To get the quality and substance of any D&D edition since - let me say - 1977 (AD&D Hardcover) you need plenty of human resources and brain/artpower - especially by the standard of today. ONE card of MtG is a piece of art. ONE supplement for D&D also. It's impossible for a small or semiprofessional/hobby market team to get something done like D&D 4th Ed. As far as I know, WotC got rich with MtG. Very rich. They thought, they could expand on this Collectability Concept and transfered it to D&D Miniatures and some D&D products, but at the core they stayed true to TSR's business model: cranking out Module after Module, Setting after Setting and Rule Supplement after Rule Supplement. How many books they wrote for D&D 3.5? How many books wrote the staff of TSR? What's the fault of D&D 4th Ed.? There is no other fault, than the same old fault: overkill and oversaturation. Absurd rule explosion and useless genre-bloat/mix (SM-Drows). Beside that I got the impression, that WotC tried to get back to the roots of D&D with 4th Ed. - and they will try again with 5th Ed., as Adam has pointed out, because the FU of 1rst Ed. Crowd is strong . Maybe this is just an illusion and the days of D&D are counted anyway. Maybe 5th Ed. is the last Big Event - and after that you will never see that happen again, gilius. There is one thing in the world of today, that was a problem even back in the good ol' days of TSR: piracy. And in the digital age piracy even makes the Big Ones bleed - like Warner Bros., Pearson and EA. And that's because of the behaviour of an oversaturated, frustrated and sometimes impoverished public, which just takes what it can get for FREE (which I cannot blame). No one can build a business model on that - at least not in a capitalistic environment. You and me, gilius, will sleep with our copyshop print of D6 Fantasy very well for the next 4 decades, if god wants us to ... . Lots of things to twist and brew, this D6 stuff. I am thinking about converting the D6 Magic rules into a Freeform Magic System for Classic D&D - where you could choose your spell components adhoc, maybe card-driven!?
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Post by paladin on Mar 1, 2012 13:23:40 GMT -9
:) ... as a latecomer I say, dragnoz: excellent concept and most excellent shading/coloring. Fine details are worth the effort, even in 30mm ... .
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Post by paladin on Mar 1, 2012 12:52:18 GMT -9
Btw, Vermin King, isn't a Thread a living being - and not a corpse?
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Post by paladin on Mar 1, 2012 12:43:55 GMT -9
@adam, I am very satisfied with the whole outcome of this Hoard. Thanks for your collaboration. And because of the colors and values of the above big pic I can tell now, that my Samsung screen is calibrated ... .
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Post by paladin on Mar 1, 2012 12:32:05 GMT -9
On top of those marvellous mods, @adam, your Mummies are top-notch!
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Post by paladin on Mar 1, 2012 12:23:45 GMT -9
Right, gilius. Same holds true for other Big Companies like Warner Bros., Pearson PLC or Electronic Arts etc. But only Hasbro has the money to pay a first class staff of designers and artists. The output may be pressed into conventional forms of aesthetics and ideas - and also rushed and buggy - like in the Computer Game Industry. That's the price for tight schedules in big professional teams. In regard to 4th Ed. D&D I would dare to say, that WotC were brave (rulewise) and gutless (overall aesthetics) at the same time. I think, the whole D&D line has turned into an ever evolving and expanding Book Printing Machine since 1976 or so - with Hardware-Updates (System Updates) and Software-Units ('Adventure-Modules'). WotC is not better or worse than TSR was in that regard. So, I believe, that D&D is something for collectors, who reject to be just that, but cannot resist to buy the NEXT [!] release. D&D is a drug. It has alot to do with the longing for childhood and teenage days - but not only - alot of younger people are getting hooked and turn away from computer gaming, just enjoying reading and writing/drawing/talking once again (luckily) ... . @steve, what you have written about the 'crunch versus story'-thing, I wholeheartedly subscribe. In that sense, 4th Ed. might still have too much crunch, 3.5 and 2nd Ed. for sure. I still love Mentzer BECMI/Rule Cyclopedian Classic D&D - house ruled ... ;D.
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Post by paladin on Feb 29, 2012 17:18:47 GMT -9
gilius, exactly. Development Logs and Reference Archives. Collective Experience in a Rare Craft, so to speak.
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Post by paladin on Feb 29, 2012 16:36:33 GMT -9
Aren't the text parts of the Hoards documents and comments of artists about their own and others work? Seriously, @nik, 'cleaning' that aspect of the Hoards up, would make me a bit sad. People have invested some time to get into talk about their paper mini approach - some text snippets could be still a nugget for old- and newcomers alike - and if only for archival purpose ... .
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Post by paladin on Feb 29, 2012 16:23:21 GMT -9
Great! Thanks alot for your hard work, @nik, and also for the previous Hoards ... . Looks impressive: our group efforts in the Hoard pic!
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Post by paladin on Feb 29, 2012 16:13:36 GMT -9
Hi @adam, very cool ('dragon&dragon') avatar of yours! If WotC really want to pull this 5th Ed. Option Beast out of their hats, they should train their writing and tutorial muscles, they will need them! They will have to explain exactly, what a Magic/Spell Point System does to the overall feel and complexity of the game in comparison to Vancian Ways - or the players won't get the point to choose this or that or something completely different ... . As I have written: lots of mechanical metadiscourse necessary, cause they seem to offer a compendium of D&D History 1974-2008+, a Real Cyclopedia 2013 for all versions ever played.
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Post by paladin on Jan 31, 2012 13:52:44 GMT -9
Just in time - HAPPY BIRTHDAY to you, Rhannon. Master of the Paper Toy Archives.
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Post by paladin on Jan 28, 2012 15:45:21 GMT -9
Thanks, David Wears, for your open words about your situation. Serious thing. I wish you all the care and love you need right now. paladin
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Post by paladin on Jan 27, 2012 7:46:30 GMT -9
Thanks again, @okum. I really hope, you, kiladecus, are fine. You can write in your posts whatever you want, but you should be aware, that some (brief) statements could cause an unwanted ( ) chain reaction ... .
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Post by paladin on Jan 26, 2012 15:23:52 GMT -9
As you have been active on this forum, kiladecus, 1 hour ago, and people are worried about your words and behaviour, I'd like to ask, if you could explain your situation, maybe via PM ... . Thank you.
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Post by paladin on Jan 26, 2012 11:08:31 GMT -9
Thanks for your action, @okum. I have a bad feeling about Kiladecus' words.
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Post by paladin on Jan 26, 2012 9:06:57 GMT -9
There is a player in my group who plays a cleric with bunches of blank spots on his character sheet where Skills and Feats belong, mostly due to crippling indecision on his part. He gets along well enough casting spells and whacking things with his weapon with a character. LOL ... Ah, well, there are even people in real life with reduced or expanded abilities and powers ... or too shy/lazy/ill/... to perform sufficiently. I think, if the players are playing well the group-effort aspect of D&D, then there might be not much difference between collaborating party members. They will divide the loot and xps equally anyway. If there are differences in mentality and goals which lead to trouble and headhunting, then the differences in game-style and abilities/feats/skills will shine in new ways ... ;D.
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Post by paladin on Jan 26, 2012 8:48:35 GMT -9
Yip, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, sammo, I wish you ongoing fun and success with your tabletop game design project ... .
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Post by paladin on Jan 26, 2012 8:33:37 GMT -9
... Don't make any mistakes. RELAX, kiladecus, relax. Take a breath. Make a pause.
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Post by paladin on Jan 25, 2012 12:28:15 GMT -9
Hmm ... as you are saying it, @adam, yes, why not? But this would be a balancing nightmare, if the GM just wants to avoid throwing everything balanced over board ... . Maybe WotC will try to find player options which are everything from simple to crunchy, but comparable powerful in game terms. Don't know. They will try to calculate it. They will not let D&D fall back to mathematical chaos ... .
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Post by paladin on Jan 24, 2012 12:24:14 GMT -9
Thanks for those 5th Ed. vision compilation, @adam, it's very enlightening. I get the feeling, that they are trying to address EVERY edition faction of the D&D cosmos without their need to learn new rules. They are searching for the perfect interface to connect ALL core systems. They want to UNIFY all game generations and their market share. That's really ambitious - could lead to quite (for newcomers) confusing and boring metagame rules for conversion and game style etc. I cannot imagine a 1rst Ed. character in a 3rd Ed. style game, btw., maybe as a NPC sketch or something ;D. WotC want to learn from GURPS and BRP in that regard, though, with the 'lever/knob'-option of interlocking modules and system parts. I am a bit troubled, though, that 4th Ed. will be the max WotC want to go along the innovation road, they seem to focus on TRADITION and an older core customer base with nostalgic attitude.
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Post by paladin on Jan 21, 2012 16:36:18 GMT -9
Though I am no D&D player, this stops me not from advertising 4th Ed. ;D ... my heart belongs to alot of game systems, or I should say: to different game mechanics, so I like to talk about mechanics, not brands or parts of the market = customer factions. If I want to pick up your image of 'clay and lego' as system components, Parduz, I think, it's not a bad analogy: 4th Ed. looks like a colorful toybox full of crowdy lego bricks in different colors (powers) - but only on its surface. 3.5 Ed. looks like a smooth mass of clay, without cracks and super-adaptable to any problem, you as a roleplayer might have, cause it's a tight simulation system - but only on its surface. If you actually handle this components, you see, that 4th Ed. is like water: you take some cups of liquid out of the pool (powers), but its surface is smooth and closed instantly. You never destroyed anything, you just reduced the content. You could easily put some cups of different liquids (power variations) into the tub, it will mix well. You could travel very fast on this watery surface in your little toyship - in every direction you want - you will not drown either. The tub, btw., is solid, nothing leaks out (core system). There might be the problem, that you can see some (colorful) bubbles on the surface, but they shape no solid form - and taste a bit soapy ... . 3.5 Ed. seems to be a deformable mass, but if you want to push and pull it, you realize, that it's dry and hard - and you break some part off. You want to glue it in another position or exchange it entirely for a new part, but it doesn't fit. You realize, that it's a multi-part construction with diverse parts, you cannot detect easily and that hold not well together. You try to rearrange them, but it doesn't work, as their positions are predetermined by their producer. There might be the problem, that you can see clear shapes, but always the same in a fixed sequence, getting boring ... . If you really want complete freedom and simplicity, also thematical freedom, I recommend West End Games d6 System and Chaosium's Basic Roleplaying anyway. You have to build your own David then, though, not copy the original. That's not easy.
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Post by paladin on Jan 21, 2012 4:31:43 GMT -9
Hi Adam,
'wrong' is a too 'heavy' word here - but the suggestion to have a look into Essentials Rules Compendium as the 1-book-solution (that's still a dream since Advanced D&D ...) had to be counterargumented.
My thoughts:
3.5 Ed. - elaborated&crunchy, but stiff (Pathfinder: slightly corrected; Fantasy Craft: innovative and flexible in d20 terms)
4 Ed. - innovative; simple, but deep; flexible; some loss of D&D lore&substance
5 Ed. - still a vision (the all-integrating uber-D&D - fully modularized, every style playable from 1rst Ed. to Crunch Nirvana ...)
I see no problem with preaching D&D 4th Ed., as this is a fully developed and published system with the usual WIP part of contradicting material. It's 8-14 (I forgot 'Psionic Power') rule books of goodness here, still available. And I bet, 5th Ed. will be different, so, 4th Ed. is already legitime as 3.5 Ed., 2nd Ed. and 1rst Ed. are, all systems actively played by split-up peer groups.
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Post by paladin on Jan 20, 2012 16:15:50 GMT -9
;D Great news, @okum. Haven't watched the Paizo activities in the recent months. So, Cardboard Warriors should show the market, how a 'good miniature' has to be ... .
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Post by paladin on Jan 20, 2012 15:54:26 GMT -9
I am a Healer. I am the typical 'Don't kill the Orc Babies - they are under the protection of the Innocent Church' Cleric. Would be cool, if this game would be totally modable. Then we could write Scenarios with our own Cardboard Warriors Artwork. Hehe ... . I was a bit pessimistic about the cultural/market impact of this kind of digital game for our paper gaming interests. But maybe, such a game could help spread the word - how great paper standies on a real table are looking ... .
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Post by paladin on Jan 20, 2012 15:07:38 GMT -9
Sometimes you are really cute, @reivaj ... This game is a DIGITAL SIMULATION of our beloved paper mini hobby - something like D&D, Magic the Gathering, Babble's Dungeon Tiles, DarkMook's minis and Sammo's Into the Fray tossed into one melting pot. The team members are all experienced and die-hard Video Game/D&D Veterans of very high rank. The game will be good. But ... you cannot download and cut and glue anything. The game is only looking like that - but it's not the real deal ... . EDIT: ah, I forgot, @reivaj - no, they are far from Beta Phase, I think. They are fighting with this game to get it finished. But usually those projects are eating much more time and money to get done than expected ... . Risk of failure is big.
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Post by paladin on Jan 20, 2012 12:08:18 GMT -9
@dave, I am not speaking in support of copyright infringement. I hate seeing artists' (always the first, I mean: the first swallowed in the food-chain anyway) work getting plundered and ripped, destroying jobs and incomes. I am a bit shocked though, that the international 'law' is far beyond - and you must not wonder, if your laptop or phone is searched by border or airport control in the future. SOPA and ACTA will have far-reaching consequences, they are designed to have these - maybe even for this forum, who knows ... . Kim Schmitz, btw, is one of the well known, traditional Cyber and Digital Criminals of Germany since 1993. He was lucky until now, standing several times in front of German courts with relative mild consequences. Now the US music and film industry is showing us an example of brutal execution of international 'law' by governmental organisation. I don't know, if this makes me really happy. They first hunt down the Big Fishes, then they will concentrate on drying out the smaller publication platforms on the web. They will try to destroy and control all channels on the web, which are not supporting their business models.
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Post by paladin on Jan 20, 2012 11:17:04 GMT -9
That's not bad, imnntt! Not bad at all ... the yellow frame of the letters is corresponding nicely with the amulet gems. But some parts Reivaj likes, may be missing now. But I think, this also helps, it's at least more 'toylike' ... .
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